Discussion:
What really matters on Saturday?
(too old to reply)
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 02:46:22 UTC
Permalink
Vote for the things that really matter

This email has images, but you need to be connected to the internet to
see them. This is a picture of Whale Rider star Rawiri Paratene, who is
supporting our campaign
<http://www.greens.org.nz/election2005/reallymatters.asp> We create the
world every day by how we choose to live. And every decision we make
changes the world.

This Saturday your vote is your voice. Speak up for the things that
really matter and give the Green Party your party vote.

Otherwise you'll be letting other people choose your future.

Please forward this to others you think will be interested - and
encourage your friends to register by Friday and vote on Saturday.

Or why not TXT your friends and ask them to VOTE GREEN FOR THE THINGS
THAT REALLY MATTER.

Click here <http://www.greens.org.nz/election2005/reallymatters.asp> to
find out what the Greens think really matters, or read on.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

This election you have a fairly simple choice. Aotearoa New Zealand
could be a shining example of how to live in balance, with each other
and on the earth. If that's what we choose to do.

Some parties' main goal seems to be bribing their way to power. Others
are building electoral support on the back of xenophobia and racism.

A party vote for the Greens is a vote for the things that really matter,
such as:

* Making sure we treat this planet like we plan to be here for a
long, long time;
* Ensuring all students get a decent living allowance while they're
studying and reducing their debt for every year they work in this
country after graduation;
* Getting serious about cleaning up our environment so more rivers
are safe for swimming in;
* Challenging climate change and investing in much better public
transport so we don't trash our future as the age of cheap oil ends;
* Scrapping youth rates and raising the minimum wage to $12 an hour;
* Having an independent foreign policy that places peacekeeping
above warmongering.

The Greens TV closing, which you can watch here
<http://www.greens.org.nz/election2005/videos.asp>, delivers a very
poignant message to the track "Time is Running Out" by acclaimed New
Zealand band Unity Pacific.

clip from the Greens TV closing
<http://www.greens.org.nz/election2005/videos.asp> clip from the Greens
TV closing <http://www.greens.org.nz/election2005/videos.asp>

Whale Rider star Rawiri Paratene, who features in the TV closing, is
encouraging people to vote Green.

"The reason I'm a member of the Green Party is because it is the
only party looking to the future, it is not stuck on short-term
goals, They're the only party with a realistic eye on the energy
crisis ahead. And I always vote with the environment in mind."

Help make sure there is a really strong Green voice in Parliament.

And remember, what matters under MMP is not whether Labour gets more
votes than National but which side gets the most votes - whether the
Greens plus Labour get more votes than National and its allies.

So make your vote count for the things that really matter and Party Vote
Green.

Party Vote Green <http://www.greens.org.nz/election2005/>

Authorised by Russel Norman, 16 Cambridge Terrace, Wellington.
John B
2005-09-15 02:52:58 UTC
Permalink
Alan Liefting wrote:

Piss off with your spam. Typical commie, anything for free at
someone else's expense.
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 04:35:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by John B
Piss off with your spam. Typical commie, anything for free at
someone else's expense.
Spam - Nope. It is a political message in a open, public political
newsgroup.

Commie - Nope. I am left wing. There is a difference.

Free - Nope. I pay mu own internet fees.
John B
2005-09-15 05:48:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Piss off with your spam. Typical commie, anything for free at
someone else's expense.
Spam - Nope. It is a political message in a open, public
political
Post by Alan Liefting
newsgroup.
Commie - Nope. I am left wing. There is a difference.
Free - Nope. I pay mu own internet fees.
Funny how you judge what things are. You say freedom is having
someone else pay your internet fees for you. Now that *is* fucked
logic.

Commies are leftist. You are a version or variant of a commie.
But you are begat from communism.

Spam. Yes.

You are a typical commie. Denies reality and tries to make it
something it can never be... just by assertion.
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 06:11:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by John B
Funny how you judge what things are. You say freedom is having
someone else pay your internet fees for you. Now that *is* fucked
logic.
Commies are leftist. You are a version or variant of a commie.
But you are begat from communism.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=communist
Post by John B
Spam. Yes.
Nope.
See http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=spam
Post by John B
You are a typical commie. Denies reality and tries to make it
something it can never be... just by assertion.
I can turn that around to argue the opposite - but I wi=ont because it
would not be true.
John B
2005-09-15 06:38:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Funny how you judge what things are. You say freedom is having
someone else pay your internet fees for you. Now that *is*
fucked
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
logic.
Commies are leftist. You are a version or variant of a commie.
But you are begat from communism.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=communist
Post by John B
Spam. Yes.
Nope.
See http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=spam
Post by John B
You are a typical commie. Denies reality and tries to make it
something it can never be... just by assertion.
I can turn that around to argue the opposite - but I wi=ont
because it
Post by Alan Liefting
would not be true.
You snipped the bit where you said you aren't free *because* you
pay your own internet fees.

That means you think freedom is having someone else pay them for
you. Do you deny that?
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 07:20:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
would not be true.
You snipped the bit where you said you aren't free *because* you
pay your own internet fees.
That means you think freedom is having someone else pay them for
you. Do you deny that?
I am talking about paying money for internet access ie. it is not FREE
for me.

I am unsure why you equate that with FREEDOM.
John B
2005-09-15 08:43:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
would not be true.
You snipped the bit where you said you aren't free *because*
you
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
pay your own internet fees.
That means you think freedom is having someone else pay them
for
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
you. Do you deny that?
I am talking about paying money for internet access ie. it is
not
Post by Alan Liefting
FREE for me.
I am unsure why you equate that with FREEDOM.
Because it *is* what YOU said. You said YOU weren't FREE because
you pay your internet fees.
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 09:07:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by John B
Because it *is* what YOU said. You said YOU weren't FREE because
you pay your internet fees.
Nope.

I said my internet fees are not free. There is a difference between
what you think I said and what I actually mean.


Aaln
Enkidu
2005-09-15 08:57:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
I am talking about paying money for internet access ie.
it is not FREE for me.
I am unsure why you equate that with FREEDOM.
Don't worry, Alan, John considers Attila the Hun to be a
leftist bigot and a communist.

Cheers,

Cliff
--
Barzoomian the Martian - http://barzoomian.blogspot.com
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 09:57:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
I am talking about paying money for internet access ie.
it is not FREE for me.
I am unsure why you equate that with FREEDOM.
Don't worry, Alan, John considers Attila the Hun to be a leftist bigot
and a communist.
Cheers,
Cliff
I am having fun here. Little do they know that this is a perfect
training ground for a political candidate. If I can survive here I will
make it to the top, Dictator of New Zealand! Ooops did I say that out
loud? Don't tell the others I said that. I want to be a Green
Dictator. I will force healthy organic non-GE food onto my people. I
see a vision of a truly clean, green New Zealand under my Green rule.

Hopefully the next three years of countering the bulshit posts will make
me into a Super Candidate and I will be up in Wellington in the Big
House and sort out the riff raff afeter the 2008 election!


Alan Liefting
Green Megalomaniac
Enkidu
2005-09-15 10:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
I am having fun here. Little do they know that this is a perfect
training ground for a political candidate. If I can survive here I will
make it to the top, Dictator of New Zealand! Ooops did I say that out
loud? Don't tell the others I said that. I want to be a Green
Dictator. I will force healthy organic non-GE food onto my people. I
see a vision of a truly clean, green New Zealand under my Green rule.
Hopefully the next three years of countering the bulshit posts will make
me into a Super Candidate and I will be up in Wellington in the Big
House and sort out the riff raff afeter the 2008 election!
Ooo. Gizajob! I'll believe in anything for money.

Cheers,

Cliff
--
Barzoomian the Martian - http://barzoomian.blogspot.com
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 10:36:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Enkidu
Post by Alan Liefting
I am having fun here. Little do they know that this is a perfect
training ground for a political candidate. If I can survive here I
will make it to the top, Dictator of New Zealand! Ooops did I say
that out loud? Don't tell the others I said that. I want to be a
Green Dictator. I will force healthy organic non-GE food onto my
people. I see a vision of a truly clean, green New Zealand under my
Green rule.
Hopefully the next three years of countering the bulshit posts will
make me into a Super Candidate and I will be up in Wellington in the
Big House and sort out the riff raff afeter the 2008 election!
Ooo. Gizajob! I'll believe in anything for money.
Cheers,
Cliff
Only if you promise to pray for a Labour/Greens win ............
Enkidu
2005-09-16 08:52:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Enkidu
Post by Alan Liefting
I am having fun here. Little do they know that this is a perfect
training ground for a political candidate. If I can survive here I
will make it to the top, Dictator of New Zealand! Ooops did I say
that out loud? Don't tell the others I said that. I want to be a
Green Dictator. I will force healthy organic non-GE food onto my
people. I see a vision of a truly clean, green New Zealand under my
Green rule.
Hopefully the next three years of countering the bulshit posts will
make me into a Super Candidate and I will be up in Wellington in the
Big House and sort out the riff raff afeter the 2008 election!
Ooo. Gizajob! I'll believe in anything for money.
Only if you promise to pray for a Labour/Greens win ............
um, um, um, does it involve something about sharp pointy
sticks up Rod Donald? If so, I'm in....

Cheers,

Cliff
--
Barzoomian the Martian - http://barzoomian.blogspot.com
John B
2005-09-15 11:10:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Enkidu
Post by Alan Liefting
I am talking about paying money for internet access ie.
it is not FREE for me.
I am unsure why you equate that with FREEDOM.
Don't worry, Alan, John considers Attila the Hun to be a
leftist
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Enkidu
bigot and a communist.
Cheers,
Cliff
I am having fun here. Little do they know that this is a
perfect
Post by Alan Liefting
training ground for a political candidate. If I can survive
here I
Post by Alan Liefting
will make it to the top, Dictator of New Zealand! Ooops did I
say
Post by Alan Liefting
that out loud? Don't tell the others I said that. I want to
be a
Post by Alan Liefting
Green Dictator. I will force healthy organic non-GE food onto
my
Post by Alan Liefting
people. I see a vision of a truly clean, green New Zealand
under my
Post by Alan Liefting
Green rule.
Hopefully the next three years of countering the bulshit posts
will
Post by Alan Liefting
make me into a Super Candidate and I will be up in Wellington
in the
Post by Alan Liefting
Big House and sort out the riff raff afeter the 2008 election!
Alan Liefting
Green Megalomaniac
Sounds like you'll be climbing a slipery pole too. Perverted just
like Klark.
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 11:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by John B
Sounds like you'll be climbing a slipery pole too. Perverted just
like Klark.
it was humour..........
John B
2005-09-15 11:29:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Sounds like you'll be climbing a slipery pole too. Perverted
just
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
like Klark.
it was humour..........
Sorry, did you want me to :-P ?
John B
2005-09-15 11:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Sounds like you'll be climbing a slipery pole too. Perverted
just
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
like Klark.
it was humour..........
Oh, your attempt at humour.

Yeah, right. Humour tells one a lot about a person. You're
obviously a deluded megalomaniac.

Why on earth any sane productive person would want to enter
politics is easily undertandable when you consider they think
they know what's best for everyone else and want to ensure people
do what they are told. Power-hungry deluded idiots. And if not,
you soon will be, or you will resign once you know what politics
is really all about.
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 11:37:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Sounds like you'll be climbing a slipery pole too. Perverted
just
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
like Klark.
it was humour..........
Oh, your attempt at humour.
Yep. It does not suit all tastes.
Post by John B
Yeah, right. Humour tells one a lot about a person. You're
obviously a deluded megalomaniac.
it was humour..........
Post by John B
Why on earth any sane productive person would want to enter
politics is easily undertandable when you consider they think
they know what's best for everyone else and want to ensure people
do what they are told. Power-hungry deluded idiots. And if not,
you soon will be, or you will resign once you know what politics
is really all about.
Don't judge me on random postings to a newsgroup.
John B
2005-09-15 11:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Sounds like you'll be climbing a slipery pole too. Perverted
just
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
like Klark.
it was humour..........
Oh, your attempt at humour.
Yep. It does not suit all tastes.
Post by John B
Yeah, right. Humour tells one a lot about a person. You're
obviously a deluded megalomaniac.
it was humour..........
Post by John B
Why on earth any sane productive person would want to enter
politics is easily undertandable when you consider they think
they know what's best for everyone else and want to ensure
people
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
do what they are told. Power-hungry deluded idiots. And if
not,
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
you soon will be, or you will resign once you know what
politics
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
is really all about.
Don't judge me on random postings to a newsgroup.
I judge you on wanting to be a politician.
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 11:54:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
Don't judge me on random postings to a newsgroup.
I judge you on wanting to be a politician.
I don't really want to be a politician but someone has to do it.

I done need or want power, I dont want the stress and long hours of the job.

What I see is problems in or society that need fixing. Until now I have
fixed appliance and computers. Now I want to fix our society!!!!!!!


Alan
John B
2005-09-15 22:49:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
Don't judge me on random postings to a newsgroup.
I judge you on wanting to be a politician.
I don't really want to be a politician but someone has to do
it.

LOL If you don't 'want' to do it, how can you possibly be the
best person for the job? Of course you want to do it-- for the
power, the perks and the money. Sticks out like dogs balls.
Post by Alan Liefting
I done need or want power, I dont want the stress and long
hours of
Post by Alan Liefting
the job.
So why do it? You certainly won't be sacrificing yourself for my
benefit, in fact, just the opposite.
Post by Alan Liefting
What I see is problems in or society that need fixing.
But getting politicians out of our lives. Politicians cause 90%
of all the problems. Don't you understand that?
Post by Alan Liefting
Until now I
have fixed appliance and computers. Now I want to fix our
society!!!!!!!
Yeah right.

You want to change what YOU see is wrong. You want to dictate to
everyone else so they obey your dictates.

Just leave people alone FFS!
uknz05
2005-09-15 12:00:47 UTC
Permalink
Well us kiwis (temporarily) here in the UK want to keep NZ the way we
left it. I would certainly agree with some of the Green policies on
transport, but the main reason I will vote for a Green-Labour coalition
is that they have proven themselves to be practical managers. It's not
necessary to introduce drastic fast reforms unless there is a drastic
crisis. By keeping NZ a stable, predictable place to invest, the
economy has grown fast, the numbers on benefits have halved and it is a
better country for it.

National will cut taxes by borrowing overseas and slashing government
spending. The economy will tank, and the Nats will sell off state
assets to their mates; including selling water, power generation, post
and television; in the same disastrous half-cocked way they sold
Tranzrail. It will be 1992 all over again, complete with a rerun of the
failed policies that never worked in the first place.

So yeah, its pretty important to me to vote for the proven economic
management of Labour and the Greens...
John Cawston
2005-09-15 21:49:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by uknz05
Well us kiwis (temporarily) here in the UK want to keep NZ the way we
left it.
That about says it all.

Far too many people want to keep this place as a museum, a retirement
village and a bolt hole.

JC
Jasen Betts
2005-10-18 07:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Don't judge me on random postings to a newsgroup.
You've got to be dictator of New Zealand before you start declaring
thought-crimes.

Don't post randomly.

Bye.
Jasen
redbaiterbaiter
2005-09-15 07:27:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Funny how you judge what things are. You say freedom is having
someone else pay your internet fees for you. Now that *is*
fucked
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
logic.
Commies are leftist. You are a version or variant of a commie.
But you are begat from communism.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=communist
Post by John B
Spam. Yes.
Nope.
See http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=spam
Post by John B
You are a typical commie. Denies reality and tries to make it
something it can never be... just by assertion.
I can turn that around to argue the opposite - but I wi=ont
because it
Post by Alan Liefting
would not be true.
You snipped the bit where you said you aren't free *because* you
pay your own internet fees.
That means you think freedom is having someone else pay them for
you. Do you deny that?
You are seriously screwed in the head.....you really are........

Freedom is having the choice whom to buy your Internet service off at a
competitive rate, hence the Government needs to abolish Telecom's monopoly.

regards

Thing
John B
2005-09-15 08:46:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by redbaiterbaiter
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Funny how you judge what things are. You say freedom is
having
Post by redbaiterbaiter
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
someone else pay your internet fees for you. Now that *is*
fucked
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
logic.
Commies are leftist. You are a version or variant of a
commie.
Post by redbaiterbaiter
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
But you are begat from communism.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=communist
Post by John B
Spam. Yes.
Nope.
See http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=spam
Post by John B
You are a typical commie. Denies reality and tries to make
it
Post by redbaiterbaiter
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
something it can never be... just by assertion.
I can turn that around to argue the opposite - but I wi=ont
because it
Post by Alan Liefting
would not be true.
You snipped the bit where you said you aren't free *because*
you
Post by redbaiterbaiter
Post by John B
pay your own internet fees.
That means you think freedom is having someone else pay them
for
Post by redbaiterbaiter
Post by John B
you. Do you deny that?
You are seriously screwed in the head.....you really
are........

Go away you senile fool. Go read what he said. I'm following his
logic. Are you saying he has NO choice in who his isp is? He said
he wasn't free (in the context of freedom from compulsion)
*because* he paid his own internet fees.

We weren't even talking about WHO provided internet. Freedom was
the point.
Jasen Betts
2005-10-18 07:19:51 UTC
Permalink
["Followup-To:" header set to nz.soc.green.]
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Piss off with your spam. Typical commie, anything for free at
someone else's expense.
Free - Nope. I pay mu own internet fees.
You snipped the bit where you said you aren't free *because* you
pay your own internet fees.
I think you immangined that bit.
--
Bye.
Jasen
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 05:20:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by John B
Piss off with your spam. Typical commie, anything for free at
someone else's expense.
So if you do not agree with a point of view you call it spam!
John B
2005-09-15 05:49:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Piss off with your spam. Typical commie, anything for free at
someone else's expense.
So if you do not agree with a point of view you call it spam!
It's blatant advertising in a political discussion group.
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 06:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by John B
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by John B
Piss off with your spam. Typical commie, anything for free at
someone else's expense.
So if you do not agree with a point of view you call it spam!
It's blatant advertising in a political discussion group.
I am advocating a political party - not anything of a commercial nature.
Bob Howard
2005-09-15 05:50:17 UTC
Permalink
"Alan Liefting" <***@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:***@ihug.co.nz...

I can agree with some of the Green aims. I won't vote for them because they
have a religious zeal that they are right. They consider themselves right to
force their views on the community. With some guidance from the government a
lot of the Green aims can be achieved through the free market. That thought
of course is sacrilege. The market has brought out a hybrid car for the
first stage of the fuel problem. When farmers and investors realise it is
viable you will see alternative fuels such bio diesel and industrial alcohol
for cars. Whey is already being converted into industrial alcohol and
experiments have been carried out with bio oils. While one man using used
fish and chip shop oil for his diesel car might be a bit of a joke it is a
sign of what is to come. The use of wind power is encouraged by the Greens
but was not organised by them. It has come from free market investment.

The Greens are welcome to throw their ideas into the ring but heaven help us
if they ever get real power.



Bob Howard.
SpamAccountForMe
2005-09-15 06:02:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Howard
I can agree with some of the Green aims. I won't vote for them because they
have a religious zeal that they are right. They consider themselves right to
force their views on the community. With some guidance from the government a
lot of the Green aims can be achieved through the free market. That thought
of course is sacrilege. The market has brought out a hybrid car for the
first stage of the fuel problem. When farmers and investors realise it is
viable you will see alternative fuels such bio diesel and industrial alcohol
for cars. Whey is already being converted into industrial alcohol and
experiments have been carried out with bio oils. While one man using used
fish and chip shop oil for his diesel car might be a bit of a joke it is a
sign of what is to come. The use of wind power is encouraged by the Greens
but was not organised by them. It has come from free market investment.
The Greens are welcome to throw their ideas into the ring but heaven help us
if they ever get real power.
Bob Howard.
In terms of ideology around the environment, we should actually look to
Australia. There environmental performance is much, much better than
ours, and guess what? They HAVEN'T signed-up to Kyoto.
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 07:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by SpamAccountForMe
In terms of ideology around the environment, we should actually look to
Australia. There environmental performance is much, much better than
ours, and guess what? They HAVEN'T signed-up to Kyoto.
It is difficult to make direct comarisons on enviro performance overall.
How do you put the weighting on the different enviro indicators to come
up with an aggregate score?

See http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/20/31558547.pdf for the OECD treatment.

We beat the Aussies on greenhouse gas emissions, NOx, SOx, per capita
waste, water intensity etc.

Aussie have not signed Kyoto because of their high greenhouse gas emissions.


Alan
John Bayley
2005-09-15 13:28:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by SpamAccountForMe
In terms of ideology around the environment, we should actually look to
Australia. There environmental performance is much, much better than
ours, and guess what? They HAVEN'T signed-up to Kyoto.
It is difficult to make direct comarisons on enviro performance overall.
How do you put the weighting on the different enviro indicators to come
up with an aggregate score?
See http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/32/20/31558547.pdf for the OECD treatment.
We beat the Aussies on greenhouse gas emissions, NOx, SOx, per capita
waste, water intensity etc.
Aussie have not signed Kyoto because of their high greenhouse gas emissions.
The Aussies have not signed Kyoto because they had worked out it would
achieve nothing in the way of improving the environment, but instead
would have resulted in decimating their economy and a massive transfer
of wealth to third-world highly polluting countries like Russia.

In other words, they were not swayed by moronic religious zeal that
drives the Gaya-worshipping Green hippies and their latte-sipping urban
socialist fellow travellers towards blindly pushing a badly flawed
measure which was to "combat" a far from proved phenomenon. In fact,
even worse - a measure which _might_ at a projected cost of trillions of
dollars at the very best reduce the Earth temperature over the next
hundred years by an amount so tiny that we cannot even accurately
measure it with out current technology.

Pity silly old New Zealand...it truly amazes me that anyone with half a
brain would continue to support the Kyoto scam in the face of what has
been its result so far...

I'm sure it won't be your hippie comrades sending their thousands of
hard-earned dollars - what an oxymoron! - to Russia thanks to Kyoto, eh?

JPB
redbaiterbaiter
2005-09-15 07:23:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Howard
I can agree with some of the Green aims. I won't vote for them because they
have a religious zeal that they are right. They consider themselves right to
force their views on the community. With some guidance from the government a
lot of the Green aims can be achieved through the free market. That thought
of course is sacrilege. The market has brought out a hybrid car for the
first stage of the fuel problem. When farmers and investors realise it is
viable you will see alternative fuels such bio diesel and industrial alcohol
for cars. Whey is already being converted into industrial alcohol and
experiments have been carried out with bio oils. While one man using used
fish and chip shop oil for his diesel car might be a bit of a joke it is a
sign of what is to come. The use of wind power is encouraged by the Greens
but was not organised by them. It has come from free market investment.
The Greens are welcome to throw their ideas into the ring but heaven help us
if they ever get real power.
Bob Howard.
That is why they only get 6~8%.

I like them to pull on Labour for the environment but I would not want
them controlling the environement. Quite a lot of their other policies
are too left wing for me....

regards

Thing
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 07:51:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Howard
I can agree with some of the Green aims. I won't vote for them because they
have a religious zeal that they are right. They consider themselves right to
force their views on the community. With some guidance from the government a
lot of the Green aims can be achieved through the free market. That thought
of course is sacrilege. The market has brought out a hybrid car for the
first stage of the fuel problem. When farmers and investors realise it is
viable you will see alternative fuels such bio diesel and industrial alcohol
for cars. Whey is already being converted into industrial alcohol and
experiments have been carried out with bio oils. While one man using used
fish and chip shop oil for his diesel car might be a bit of a joke it is a
sign of what is to come. The use of wind power is encouraged by the Greens
but was not organised by them. It has come from free market investment.
The Greens are welcome to throw their ideas into the ring but heaven help us
if they ever get real power.
Bob Howard.
Greens have no real interest in power.
The membership and possibly Green caucus hav hummed and haaaed over
whether Cabinet positions should be accepted.

Greens have only shown an interest in two cabinet positions:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/manawatustandard/0,2106,3411637a6003,00.html

Since the Greens prefer proportional representation and are only polling
at 6-7% it is only fair to get 6-7% of the cabinet positions.


Alan
John B
2005-09-15 08:48:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
I can agree with some of the Green aims. I won't vote for them
because they have a religious zeal that they are right. They
consider themselves right to force their views on the
community.
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
With some guidance from the government a lot of the Green aims
can
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
be achieved through the free market. That thought of course is
sacrilege. The market has brought out a hybrid car for the
first
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
stage of the fuel problem. When farmers and investors realise
it is
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
viable you will see alternative fuels such bio diesel and
industrial
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
alcohol for cars. Whey is already being converted into
industrial
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
alcohol and experiments have been carried out with bio oils.
While
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
one man using used fish and chip shop oil for his diesel car
might
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
be a bit of a joke it is a sign of what is to come. The use of
wind
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
power is encouraged by the Greens but was not organised by
them. It
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
has come from free market investment.
The Greens are welcome to throw their ideas into the ring but
heaven
Post by Alan Liefting
Post by Bob Howard
help us if they ever get real power.
Bob Howard.
Greens have no real interest in power.
The membership and possibly Green caucus hav hummed and haaaed
over
Post by Alan Liefting
whether Cabinet positions should be accepted.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/manawatustandard/0,2106,3411637a6003,00.html
Post by Alan Liefting
Since the Greens prefer proportional representation and are
only
Post by Alan Liefting
polling at 6-7% it is only fair to get 6-7% of the cabinet
positions.
Post by Alan Liefting
Alan
Therefore ifLabour polls 40%, they should only get 40% of the
cabinet positions, is that what you're saying?
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 10:27:07 UTC
Permalink
Therefore if Labour polls 40%, they should only get 40% of the
cabinet positions, is that what you're saying?
Cabinet only has those parties that make up the Government.

Let us say for argument sake it is a Labour/Green/Progressive
government. That was a likely scenario with some of past the polls and
is also my prefered option short of a Labour/Greens govt.

Let us say that the election gives:
Labour gets 42%
Greens get 8%
Progressive get 1%
This is close to the average polling but I have tweaked it to give a 51%
majority for the left in order to do this example.

Cabinet would likely to consist of Lab/Grn/Progressive.

To be fair Cabinet would then be 88% Lab and 16% Grn plus Jim Anderton.

There are 20 positions in Cabinet. Labour would be entitled to 17.6
MP's. Let us round that down to 17. I dont like the sound of 0.6 of an
MP! That leaves two for the Greens and Jim Anderton to make up the 20.

Note that your 40% of the party vote equates to 80% of Cabinet positions.


Alan
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 11:33:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Howard
I can agree with some of the Green aims. I won't vote for them because they
have a religious zeal that they are right.
Narh. We have a religious zeal that we are left.........
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 11:34:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Howard
With some guidance from the government a
lot of the Green aims can be achieved through the free market.
Yep.
BrentC
2005-09-15 06:03:27 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:46:22 +1200, Alan Liefting
<***@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
Good luck with the election Alan - I mean you personally - the rest of
the greens can get ^%$^$

You seem a nice guy - I hope you do well - it is pity your selected
party has been hijacked by BS and clueless dross
Alan Liefting
2005-09-15 06:17:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrentC
Good luck with the election Alan - I mean you personally - the rest of
the greens can get ^%$^$
Thank you.
Post by BrentC
You seem a nice guy - I hope you do well - it is pity your selected
party has been hijacked by BS and clueless dross
Aw shucks - thank you........ It is hard to be nice in this overheated,
emotive and slanderous newsgroup, but I try.

As for the Greens they are simply trying to do their best for
individuals, families, communities, our society, our country, whaunau,
hapu, iwi, tribes, etc.

They look at long term goals rather than over a short term election
cycle. Long term goals are not always palatble in the short term.


Alan
Enkidu
2005-09-15 08:54:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Vote for the things that really matter
Wine, women and song? But which party? Which party has the
best women, which party is going to put on the post-election
do and which party.... actually I'm not fussed about the song...

Cheers,

Cliff
--
Barzoomian the Martian - http://barzoomian.blogspot.com
Shane
2005-09-15 08:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Liefting
Vote for the things that really matter
Wine, women and song? But which party? Which party has the best women,
which party is going to put on the post-election do and which party....
actually I'm not fussed about the song...
Cheers,
Cliff
Oh sh*t.. now I have to vote national..... katherine rich is a hotty :-)
--
Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked

The best way to get the right answer on usenet is to post the wrong one.
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